Mümin Tunaboylu Interview

S: Our guest is Apleona Procurement Director Mümin Tunaboylu. Hello, welcome. Could you first introduce yourself?

MT: Hello, I have been practicing the procurement profession for approximately 15 years. We have been in every corner of the kitchen in the procurement profession. In my career that started as a procurement specialist assistant, I became a procurement specialist, procurement supervisor, procurement manager, director, and now I am undertaking the Turkey Procurement Directorship of an international company. This is a very beautiful, enjoyable profession that I love. Not only practicing this profession but also we make every effort to contribute something to the profession. Of course, we are in the effort to express these through organizations like yours, the associations we are members of, and through press and publication. Of course, I would be pleased to state that during this 15-year period, we are happy not only with our experiences but also with the colleagues we have raised for the sector.

S: Yes, thank you very much. Mr. Mümin is a procurement manager who has also done a master's degree in marketing. He is a person who, despite being a procurement manager, with the understanding that he needs to know the other side of the table, devoted his master's degree to this field, devoted years to it... As someone new to procurement, I saw that the concept of procurement itself is generally not well known. When I say I work in procurement, they ask me, "what do you buy then?" People think there should be a concrete object when it comes to procurement, procurement as a concept is not well known. That this is a business in itself, that this is an area of activity in companies, that it is a department is not well known. However, procurement is the lifeline of companies. What do you say, what is "procurement"? How do you define it, how should it be, how should procurement be done?

MT: As you said, we completed our master's education in the marketing field. Because in today's conditions, while all marketers go through tremendous training like "how can I convince a procurement professional," unfortunately, since there is no educational or undergraduate education in our procurement sector, we also wanted to strengthen ourselves in different fields. The other side of the table was important, we saw this. We made an effort to develop ourselves in this field. At the same time, as we said, not only ourselves but we also experienced what more we can do in the field with our teams.

S: The procurement professional has the power anyway. I mean, he has the money, he will spend the boss's money. So it's not that important. Others will convince him anyway, give him information and so on, isn't it assumed like that? There seems to be such a thing.

I express this to every marketing colleague: As much as you need to sell a product or service, we also have a need to buy. The important thing is to meet at mutual benefits.

MT: Absolutely so, yes. I mean, it's partly true that the procurement professional needs to be convinced. But how is a procurement professional convinced? We can make a whole program about this. Because at the end of the day, I come to this: We are not routine procurement professionals, frankly. I express this to every marketing colleague: As much as you need to sell a product or service, we also have a need to buy. The important thing is to meet at mutual benefits. This is already formed at the basis of procurement. Now, as you said, actually, professionally speaking, we make a lot of effort and endeavor. In terms of defining procurement as a profession. Because when I started my career, there was no department called procurement department. Frankly, we started under administrative affairs in my career and many of my colleagues started in different departments, some in finance, some in human resources. But of course, when we look at the development of the last 10-15 years, we can now see it as a separate department. Professionally, we now define this as follows: Procurement is the acquisition of a product or service at the right time, in the right place, in the right quantities, in the right quality, with the right strategies, at the right price. Now as you can see, we put many rights one after another here and put the price part at the end. It is also misunderstood in the market that the procurement professional is the one who buys at the cheapest price. Now with this perspective, it is also very wrong on the part of managers in companies or family companies, corporate companies, and also on the part of the person practicing the procurement profession. Because as you will appreciate, buying a product that is not right, not of the right quality at the cheapest price is not any success story. Therefore, a procurement professional is actually the one who brings all these components together. That's why we always tell all our colleagues, fellow professionals this. Actually, after passing these steps, stages, we can say that we have now come to the price evaluation stage.

Professionally, we now define this as follows: Procurement is the acquisition of a product or service at the right time, in the right place, in the right quantities, in the right quality, with the right strategies, at the right price. Now as you can see, we put many rights one after another here and put the price part at the end.

S: Strategic procurement is actually this, isn't it? There is a concept called strategic procurement. In our language, there is actually a concept, such an expression of buying while winning. Everyone knows this expression even if they don't know about procurement. You will win while buying, you will buy well while buying, you will buy the right one or you will buy at a reasonable price. So strategic procurement seems to be built on this, doesn't it? Like "you will buy strategically so that you win while buying," there should be such a connection between these two, I think.

MT: Absolutely correct. Actually, I can interpret this both chronologically and methodologically. Now it has become a cliché in everyone's language. Yes, correct, buying while winning. Now if we elaborate on that a bit, in today's conditions, whether you practice this profession or not. Everyone outside knows this well: When a product is to be procured, let's say we will buy a pen or let's say we will buy water. Everyone knows the price of this now. You cannot sell a one-lira item for ten liras to the other party. Then where do companies make a difference, if you ask, yes, if they catch the most optimum solution from raw material costs, logistics costs, other expenses to produce this pen, buying while winning happens here. Then they can increase their profitability, and companies that increase their profitability become more long-term, more sustainable companies. Now I want to elaborate on this question a bit more. Now the term strategic procurement has started to be used frequently today. That's actually the chronological word I mentioned. When we started procurement, a routine procurement activity, which I call lean procurement, was being managed. What is this? A demand comes. Following the arrival of the demand, determining the necessary criteria for meeting this, market research, then negotiations, then order processes, contracts, there was such a process. Later, with developing technological conditions and today's environments, it moved to proactive procurement by jumping one more step. What is proactive procurement? Now when demand comes, because procurement starts with demand for us, it went to the point of questioning the demand. That is, is this demand correct? What will this demand be met for? The questioning phase of whether the selected product or service is correct was entered. Now let's leave that aside. We are actually at the point of strategic procurement today. Now in strategic procurement, there is also a very different one. This is also by looking ahead to the future, how can we manage the products and services that will be needed in future periods with the data, suppliers, services, and stocks we currently have, which was a very important time period for us in terms of experience during the pandemic period. Because companies with money, including, could not procure products or services. But I always say this, what did companies doing strategic procurement do? We leaned back and watched the process. Because we had made our long-term contracts, product stocks, agreements. In strategic procurement, which we may go into these details again later, the moves made by the procurement professional within the framework of these forecasts begin to evolve into processes that are much more value-added and profit-generating for the company. Yes, now I mentioned two important words, concepts. One is foresight, the other is data. You must have data to make forecasts and perhaps you will obtain a forecast for yourself.

You cannot sell a one-lira item for ten liras to the other party. Then where do companies make a difference, if you ask, yes, if they catch the most optimum solution from raw material costs, logistics costs, other expenses to produce this pen, buying while winning happens here.

S: This was exactly one of the topics I wanted to come to. There are questions asked for the preparation of PMI, that is, Procurement Manager Indices, like where will the economy go, will it grow or shrink? When I learned these, I first thought this, why do they ask these to procurement managers, I mean, there are also sales managers here, there are also personnel managers. They also understand economics. Why procurement professionals? You are already giving the answer to this, because procurement professionals have to make the right decisions, they actually manage the economy by making the right decisions. To make the right decisions, they also need to have data. This is the case here, but I want to ask this: what is the situation regarding this information and data? Is it easy to access such data, to access the right data? And actually, let me add that right away. In such a variable world where data is so variable, where markets are turbulent, where there are risks, how much do those data guide you so that you can see ahead and guide the economy too?

S: Actually, the topic has started to deepen, but at this point, as a procurement professional, I am unfortunately a bit pessimistic because the situation is terrible. Why is it terrible? In every job, every profession I have done throughout my life, I have expressed this: Knowledge is power. The one who obtains knowledge is powerful, but not just obtaining knowledge, processing this knowledge, making sense of it is very important at this point. Unfortunately, in the procurement sector, as I said, while we are still on the way to becoming a profession, while these steps are being taken, while we are now defining the profession, the world is going to very different points right now. What did we say, when we talk about procurement departments, these are now being evaluated at C-level positions abroad or in global companies. Because with the awareness of buying while winning, this gains quite important meaning with the steps taken by institutions to reach more visionary structures. Now data is important, yes, we all have data in our hands. Very simply, today we obtain information like how much turnover we make, which companies we work with from accounting departments, but these are unfortunately not sufficient data. More detailed data is needed and these need to be made sense of. Doing these manually is also quite difficult, unfortunately difficult. Today I gave an example to my procurement department, I usually give an example. When asked, you know, you say procurement but what do you buy, what do you give, they ask a lot. Now we ask ourselves this too, but this needs to be detailed much more. I buy services, but what kind of services do you buy, in which areas do you buy services, which service have you bought more? While buying this service, how many companies have you contacted, how many of the companies you contacted have you worked with? How many of the companies you worked with do you have contracts with? At what levels are your supplier satisfactions regarding these companies? Now when we start to get into these, KPIs and SLEs come into play. Actually, in today's conditions, there is so much data that unfortunately, look, procurement professionals really work in very intense positions, so they go from always saving the day, firefighting, so they unfortunately cannot bring this data together. That's why I will talk about the general deficiency of the procurement sector that I see here. Unfortunately, this is not supported by digital programs. Many e-tendering systems used today, other systems unfortunately cannot produce a complete solution. Currently, infrastructures and services that can produce solutions are being established and configured. We are also trying to support at this point, and hopefully our sector will reach a very good point, but it is still beneficial to say this: Data, knowledge is power. This power must also be used correctly. When we bring all this data together meaningfully, I believe we will manage much more successful procurement processes.

Regarding data, as a procurement professional, I am unfortunately a bit pessimistic because the situation is terrible. Why is it terrible? In every job, every profession I have done throughout my life, I have expressed this: Knowledge is power. The one who obtains knowledge is powerful, but not just obtaining knowledge, processing this knowledge, making sense of it is very important at this point.

S: Yes, we have come to a very good topic again. The use of digital tools, that is, the use of digital tools at this point where technology has reached. At that point, we are a bit more open in Turkey, I think so. I mean, we may be more open to digital or all kinds of technological innovations than more developed countries. I mean, because there are established systems there, for example, in Germany, even now, many transactions including banking are still carried out on paper. The work we have been doing by e-mail for a long time is carried out by mail there. You may have to wait for a letter to come from the post office for your bank transaction to take place. Perhaps, because we are building the systems they established before and operated for years or maybe centuries in Turkey newly, it has become or will become easier to build and start using directly in the digital environment. Now, at the last point we have reached, we may be able to use procurement work in this way too. I know that you use it. In this sense, you used digital systems and obtained these advantages, didn't you? Perhaps you also observed that this is a facilitating thing in Turkey and even more facilitating for Turkey. If you could also tell us about your company's experiences in this sense, let's evaluate it together.

MT: Now first you mentioned our present, let's evaluate our present. From the procurement professionals' perspective, how do demands usually come to procurement professionals? At best, let's say it comes in the mail environment. It comes in writing, but unfortunately there are those who convey demands through applications like WhatsApp currently used, mobile applications, there are even those who call on the phone and say their demand. You know, demand is born in case of need. Needs are also urgent for everyone. The procurement professional is also obliged to manage these urgent processes. It is very difficult to manage this. That's why we unfortunately cannot advance the sector. The event I mentioned as firefighting every day was actually this. I mean, there was a need, let's do it immediately, let's prioritize it, let it be. We cannot move to strategic procurement like this, unfortunately.

S: Our transition should also be strategic, right? You're saying something like that.

MT: Absolutely so, and I want to say this, a procurement professional should also know how to say no. I mean, a demand came, mine is urgent. Well, wait a minute, this has a certain procedure, process. Hopefully, it exists in all companies, but unfortunately this is also a deficiency. Because when there is no digitalization, you are trying to construct some things completely by yourself. But when you try to manage with extreme flexibility, unfortunately you cannot bring any results either. You enter a completely stressful, completely work-filled life. I always say this. If we want to do better, friends, we must get out of the routine. Now our routine processes may be going well with our eyes, but as you also expressed, our company is also Germany-based, a company that has been standing for over 100 years. The most basic purpose of such companies standing is being open to innovation. Here, not only procurement departments, this discipline exists in all departments. If we do not adapt these to our lives and work, frankly, we will fall behind. If we fall behind, yes, we will drown among those demands and work, I think. Now we also said before, how did we describe our present. In a process where offers come by mail, you still call the supplier by phone, you take a pen in your hand and write on paper, you get written from some. You create a comparison table. He takes it to someone to get it signed, the other one takes it to someone else as authority. From there you collect the request forms. Actually, it creates a tremendous time loss for procurement because procurement is one of the most audited units of institutions. Of course, we also try to be very sensitive here. We try to carry out these processes quite transparently, but because we are drowning in these procedures, our processes are unfortunately slowing down. Unfortunately, I also put procedure and bureaucracy into this. In order for our processes not to slow down, what do procurement professionals do? They continue through companies or systems they have already experienced. But doing this unfortunately does not provide added value to companies when looked at in the long term or medium term. Because look, you work with the same suppliers. You generally procure the same products. You actually cannot break the routine.

A procurement professional should also know how to say no. I mean, a demand came, mine is urgent. Well, wait a minute, this has a certain procedure, process. Hopefully, it exists in all companies, but unfortunately this is also a deficiency. Because when there is no digitalization, you are trying to construct some things completely by yourself.

S: This is a limitation, that is, it limits itself, because it cannot get out of the work, right?

MT: Absolutely so, and unfortunately, if I give a percentage in our sector, I estimate that over ninety percent of this process goes like this. Every procurement professional is very busy. Every company's needs are too many. Especially if you are in the production sector, today, you know, finding a screw, its cost is cheap, but in a situation that will disrupt the workflow there, you immediately go to the ordering process. You don't look at the cost much. If you want to create a comfort zone for yourself there, we need to digitize companies. Frankly, we always lead this with our team. We constantly encourage. We provide that comfort zone to friends. We want them to try innovations. As you said, I currently have some procurement software and programs in use, and frankly, we are currently satisfied with them, and while being satisfied, we act proactively to take them further. Come on, let's add this too, come on, let's do this too... Because frankly, we have these opportunities in our partners we work with. If we want to evolve procurement, if we want to improve our procurement processes, if we want to take our company further, if we want to minimize our future risks, frankly, we need these. We do these, we apply them so that we want to give this message to all our procurement friends and colleagues from here. For them to apply these too, to operate them, we provide the support we can. Because we saw the benefit of this. Yes, getting used to this at the beginning, getting out of the comfort environment as we said may seem a bit difficult, but after putting these into a system, frankly, these can go like unraveling a sock, and as long as you have your system, as you said, you can access data, data strengthens your hand, you can filter the costs, suppliers, contents, history here. You can produce new things among these, you can develop yourself. That's why I think moving to digitalization, companies adapting at these points is an issue that should be prioritized.

As you said, I currently have some procurement software and programs in use, and frankly, we are currently satisfied with them, and while being satisfied, we act proactively to take them further... Moving to digitalization, companies adapting at these points is an issue that should be prioritized, I think.

S: I also think like this, that is, if we think about what this corresponded to in the daily life of the procurement professional, let's try to look at it from a more fun side... In the past, when these digital technologies did not exist at all, that is, when there was no e-mail, when there was no internet, what happened? Companies were making their purchases from the nearest suppliers around them. Those who grew a bit more, those who increased their opportunities a bit more, maybe traveled somewhere, went and met, looked at the goods, then by writing letters, corresponding by letter, that also took months, years. Now, thanks to technology, they were doing the work we do in seconds in very long periods and there was no intensity then. But when e-mail emerged or any communication opportunity related to the internet emerged, it meant such an intensification, narrowing, so much more work loading on some people. I mean, demands started to come like do the job you would do in months in one minute, then do another one like that. But this actually happened over a very long period. When you switch to a digital platform, I know friends who pull their hair out. I mean, "I don't want to receive emails and offers from a hundred suppliers at once." I mean, it may have made their daily life very difficult, but we can also think that this will settle over time. I mean, we shouldn't look at this. These are perhaps a fluctuation in the transition process, right? You probably experienced such things too.

MT: True, of course, of course it's true. Everyone will experience this as you said. Now technology is developing so fast that some things may be troublesome at the beginning, but in the progressing processes, it becomes much faster. Using the system, getting used to systems, taking place in systems. Yes, how was procurement in the past? You found the suppliers around you, you contacted them, you bought products from them. Technology developed a bit more, what did they do? Fairs happened, you know, companies started to participate in fairs. Procurement professionals now went there, took business cards from there, contacted new companies. When the internet environment developed a bit more like this, different B2B, B2C contacts started to happen, new companies came from there, but also, data is important, but data pollution also started to occur. Now today, when we search for something on the internet, you can find so many companies, but which one is reliable, which one can be worked with, look, there are always question marks. Actually, using systems, moving to digitalization means bringing the security factor here to the right level. You can overcome this dirty information. Now using systems, as you said, I used to send an email to the company, the company used to send me an email, I would take it and put it. Now what happens this time? When you look at the data flow retrospectively, for example, I usually do this: there are approximately over 10 thousand transactions per year. I choose any one of these, I tell friends to tell the story of this. Now look, finding that story is very difficult. Find the emails, who they came from, who approved, who bought, why it was bought from this, when those stories are broken, then the film breaks. Now, in order to complete that film, not to break that film, as we said, systems may be difficult at the entrance, but when you define your own suppliers, when you define your own product items, when you contact defined suppliers from the environment to be more competitive, look, you both create a competitive environment and start using data correctly. It is difficult at the beginning because you will define your suppliers, you will define your products, your items, but if you spend effort in maybe a one-month process for this, believe me, before moving to the second month, you start collecting data much faster, much more competitively. This also provides serious advantages for institutions, but again, I want to underline this point. In terms of transparency, procedurally, I really think systems should be used.

Tomorrow, these platforms will be able to present the data that will see my need to me much faster. They can put much more useful information in our pocket. I think of the event like this. That's why trying is the golden key of this, I think. Thanks to these platforms, I believe they can make their own big data much more meaningful by spending just a little effort.

S: Yes, you really explained it very well. If we explained this topic as a digital platform, we would also explain it from this angle, and everyone should look at it from this angle. We are not saying that all gains will be achieved suddenly here. I mean, you are moving to an upper level, but there may be costs of moving to that upper level, there may be difficulties for a while, there is a period of getting used to it. Then you perceive everything at a completely different level, you perceive your work at a completely different level, your gains too. You start to evaluate differently. I mean, the scales grow, maybe before you were looked at with the eye that it would be enough to make an evaluation about two suppliers in a day, suddenly the expectation changes, maybe it is said "examine all of these 100 suppliers because you have the tools for this." These are also things that settle over time, maybe it seems to make the lives of procurement professionals difficult individually, but you are talking about a world where procurement professionals will perceive different things when they look a little closer.

MT: Absolutely correct, I didn't want to divide, but this exists in every job. When an innovation comes, it is looked at like "what was the need, our job was already going, we already had a routine," but...

S: There is resistance...

MT: The important thing is to break this resistance. Even when I do annual performance evaluations of my own personnel, one of the criterion items I put is being open to innovation. What new things can we find, what new things can we contact, who new can we reach. Systems already put these in front of us, present them. Because look at these systems, there is not one Mümin procurement professional here, there are maybe hundreds of procurement professionals there. With their demands and needs during the period, there is a matured, kneaded infrastructure, system. If Mümin thinks one today, a hundred procurement professionals there think a hundred. Tomorrow, these platforms will be able to present the data that will see my need to me much faster. They can put much more useful information in our pocket. I think of the event like this. That's why trying is the golden key of this, I think. I tell everyone: Try, did you try? After trying, yes, you will see the benefits of these, but yes, if they can overcome these at the beginning, and they will overcome, I mean, this is not rocket science. Today we can all reach everything quickly. Thanks to these platforms, I believe they can make their own big data much more meaningful by spending just a little effort.

S: Yes. Thank you very much. The conversation is very nice, but time is also passing quickly. Actually, I wish we could also touch on the effects of fluctuations in international markets on the procurement world, but I hope that will be the subject of another conversation of ours.

MT: It was really very enjoyable. I thank you very much. As we said, we are also knowledgeable about international markets. We can have very nice conversations on those topics too. But as a result of our conversation today, let's give this message to our friends too. Digitalization is quite important for every institution. Especially in critical departments like procurement, I ask our friends to be open to these innovations, to try these innovations, to lead such initiatives, and if they have any information, data needs, if they have opinion needs, to contact us. I also thank you for this enjoyable conversation.